Alexandre
The brand Fiat had already announced the end of sales of the Fiat 500 combustion engine in March 2023.a car that has enjoyed a long, long career since it was first produced in 2007 in Tychy, Poland. Production of the combustion-powered 500 will cease as scheduled at the end of 2023 in Europe. However, Fiat may have a surprising rescue plan for this automotive icon.
End of sales in France and Europe
The diesel-powered Fiat 500 is logically being replaced by the electric version.which has been manufactured in Italy since 2020. This transition is part of the automotive industry's efforts to reduce emissions and adopt more environmentally-friendly technologies... A real challenge when you consider thatin terms of sales, the 500 combustion engine is holding its own against electric vehicles. The Italian factory for the electric 500 is currently shut down. for lack of demand.
According to Challenge, since the beginning of October 2023, it has no longer been possible to order a Fiat 500 combustion engine in France.. Sales are due to be phased out in all European countries. This marks the end of an era for this iconic little city car.
Unexpected Plan B sold from Algeria
However, Fiat may well have a Plan B.. Stellantis, the group to which Fiat belongs, has invested over 200 million euros in Algeria, at its Tafraoui plant near Oran. An unnoticed announcement that also dates back to March 2023...
By the end of the year, the plant will produce not only Fiat 500 thermics, but also Fiat Doblo. In addition, the Fiat Tipo, Panda, 500X, Scudo and Ducato models could also be produced there by 2026. Stellantis even plans to create 2000 jobs with an annual production of 90,000 vehicles for this plant. Note also that these cars will be updated with the new ADAS safety systems, which will be mandatory from 2024.
For now, production is reserved for North African countries with the aim of selling 1 million vehicles by 2030. It's also a good way of having a plan B in case electric cars flop in Europe.
And in Europe, factories are being shut down... because the 500e is so expensive that it's starting to sell... in dribs and drabs. Seriously, though, we're in way over our heads.
And how do you import a Fiat from North Africa and register it in France?
A plan B would be nice, but the Fiat 500, while perfect for the city or short trips, is starting to look a bit dated (unless I'm mistaken, it came out 12 or 14 years ago).
What am I going to rent from now on as a basic car? An electric car that's a pain to recharge when there's no charging station near where you're going?
It won't be up to you to import it. Fiates will do it if there's a real demand for it in France or elsewhere, and if you find it old-fashioned, that's obviously not the case for everyone.
I didn't say that the Fiat 500 is old-fashioned, just that it came out in 2007-2008, which is a long time ago.
I don't own a Fiat 500, but I've driven one countless times. It's a perfect city car.
I had its big sister, the Abarth 595 and then the Abarth 695 until recently.
What do you call her big sister?
The word is ill-chosen. I was talking about the Abarth 595/695.
So yes, you can talk about big sister in this case because I thought you were talking about the Punto.
A Lancia Ypsilon hybrid probably...
The Ypsilon hasn't been sold in France for a while. I'm not sure the future one will appeal.
It's just in France that the 500 and Panda will be phased out in the middle of next year, but in other European countries, combustion models will still be on sale, apparently because they're selling like hotcakes.
It's like some vaccines, once you've vaccinated as many people as possible and the state coffers are full again, you move on to something else.
It's a flop, because sales of the 500th model have melted like snow in the sun, at least in France.
Well, it would be nice to have a backup plan that would also keep the Firefly engine instead of the pure-tech Peugeot mole.
How can customers be left with so little choice? I've been driving 500s for years and was planning to change my current one. Electrics are far too expensive compared with combustion engines, and I don't have an old car to trade in, so I'm losing part of the bonus! I'm doomed to keep my 500 or buy a used one or change brands....what a shame!!!!
Lili buy a recent used Abarth. Not only is it nicer, the price will have taken a huge hit and you'll lose little money compared to a new one.
This is what I did after a disappointing visit to the dealership in June to buy my wife a new Fiat 500.
First of all, they're always trying to sell us a Fiat 500e. I live in the city, no garage, my house faces the street. Explain to me how I'm going to recharge this car?
In short, we've done the rounds of what's possible with a 500 "hybrid": 4 poor colors, more leather... For around €21,000. All I get is a modern Ford T. On his first 500, bought in 2005 or 2006, there must have been over 50,000 possible configurations!
In 2023, it's inconceivable that we'd spend €21,000 on a 70-horsepower 500 that my wife doesn't like!
The next one, in 2011, was equipped with leather, in the Lounge version. It cost us just over €14,000 from a dealer. The configuration was still nice, with plenty of possibilities.
So, after a chat with my wife, who was disillusioned (hello customer experience in the marketing age!), and a quick trip to Leboncoin, we went to look at a little 595 Abarth, 145 hp 2018.
It behaves like a real car, handling, steering, braking and engine, transfiguring the 500! It's superbly equipped, with a magnificent saddle-stitched leather interior, sunroof,... 30,000 km and just over €17,000, new tires, serviced.
My wife is finally in love with her car for the first time!
And now we're back in business for another 10 years, or even longer!
Fiat's policy is incomprehensible, even if it is largely dictated by a completely mad Europe. I'm a die-hard Alfa fan, so I'm somewhat used to this permanent mess!
As for the Abarth and the 500, I agree with you entirely.
As for Alfa, for once Marchionne, as with the 4C (too bad it didn't come out under Abarth) and the 124, was right on the money (apart from having stopped the Duetto, supposedly for a problem of standing, when after the S2000, Mazda provided the best platform in the world for a roadster... in short).
If Alfa was to return to the forefront of the market, it had to strike a blow, and the result exceeded our expectations. We all know that it was vital to make a mark (just as it is for Lancia). The problem is, he did things by halves, because along with the Giulia (and a station wagon too), the Stelvio should have stopped at the V6, deliberately limiting the number of models with a higher price tag, and evolving the product every year in the manner of Ferrari. As a result, demand would have outstripped supply, and prestige would have been even more sparkling, making it possible to produce a Giulietta and a Kamal, which would have been very welcome later on. Lexus and even Maserati have come and gone with this method, so there's no mystery about it. Kia and Hyundai have decided to do the same, and in a short space of time we can see just how far they've come.
The 4-cylinders of the Giulia, Stelvio and Ghibli should have been invested... for Lancia using the same method.
To move upmarket, there was nothing easier than to take the Maserati platforms and incorporate them into the Lancia and Alfa ranges, each with its own engine and philosophy.
The diesel versions from Alfa and Maserati have done more harm than good, and the latest Lancia models are an absolute disgrace.
Toyota has also demonstrated this with the BRZ and the GT86 or GR86. Alas, even if they are physical clones, the driving philosophy has absolutely nothing to do with each other: the GT86 is a pure Toug machine, while the BRZ is an accomplished racing car.
When Marchionne shouted loud and clear that the Giorgio platform had emptied the coffers, all he had to do was think and apply this method, but alas, you can't undo the past.
It' s the model that keeps them alive and they stop it 🤪😏
And as usual, no new model to replace the bravo II, the 159, the delta, the mito, the punto......no replacement or the new model 4 years later when the customers have gone elsewhere.
Bravo stellantis
The 159 was replaced by the Giulia (and fortunately so) because it wasn't a marvel, like the Brera, which I can't get rid of.
Yes 4 years later
When you see the product... it was really worth the wait for once, because we're not from the bottom of the grid to pole position in terms of product, it's night and day.
Perfect summary of the deplorable strategy implemented by Fiat/alfa. As an Alfa fan, I drive a BMW m2 and a yaris gr; Alfa's engines are nothing but crap, apart from the overpriced QV.
In any case, the Guilia QV is something else than the M3 because the F80 is already a piece of shit, the E90 at 93 already sucked, but now BMW's hitting rock bottom, and the worst of all is the latest G80 and M2, which suck against walls, not to mention the rotten design that would make Darth Vader flee or the Batmobile vomit 🤢 🤮 and we're not even going to talk about reliability, which borders on zero, because between the turbo supports nothing and the engine itself likes to end up in marmalade.
BMWs are like Porsches... they've become the scam of the new millennium.
100% I agree. Not only does the design of the M3 and the new M2 suck, but inside it's even worse with an xxl digital panel.
If, on top of that, it's unreliable! But the average kéké thinks first of a German car, so there's no point in trying to convince him to buy something else.
A Giulia Quadrifoglio is night and day compared to an M3 Competition.
BMW has produced sublime M3s right up to the E46 (especially the ultra devilish E30). The first M2 had a lousy design but was a real war machine, but the last one, with the M3 chassis and engine, lost all its aura, even though BMW was well on the way to sending the M3 to the museum of automotive history with the M2.
Not to mention that the 1 Series is a front-wheel-drive model that shares its chassis with the Mini.
The worst was when BMW put the E30 evo on the track against the E92, and the result was indisputable: the E30 evo pummeled it to the point that BMW quickly withdrew the video, even though it's still available because customers filmed the scene.
No, Alfa isn't all crap outside the V6. The 280 hp 2.0 is a very good engine.
The GR Yaris is packed with qualities and is super healthy, but its 3-cylinder doesn't enthuse me (even if it pushes hard, the false sound is a bit lame). I speak from experience, because in addition to Alfa Romeos, I also own a GR Yaris.
I must admit, having tested the GR Yaris, it's fantastic, but it'll never make me forget the GT86, the GR86 or the MR2 SW20 or the sublime 2000GT.
The 4-cylinder lacks just one thing... more aerodynamic engines like the Twin Spark or the Balbiero. Honda has always managed to do it, and so has Alfa, so I don't get it, and neither did the 4C engine, which didn't need much, as Scara proved.
I have the 1750 TBI engine in my Giulietta. Except that it's almost 400 kg heavier than the 4C.
The Giulietta with this 240 hp engine is quite powerful, very pleasant, but not sporty. I've never driven a 4C, but I suspect it must be very different. The other Japanese cars you mention I haven't driven either.
The 4C is totally different from the Giulietta in that it's really a mini Supercar, but it has a bit of an electric feel to it, because you get all the torque instantly, thanks to its very low engine speed (it feels like a diesel), and that's sometimes unsettling. Scara has just modified the mapping, the turbo and a different gearbox setting. The maximum engine speed is no longer 6500 but 7500. You don't feel the turbo's effect any more, with 295hp to start with (up to 375hp for the ultra devilish SC73 evo II and a dry weight approaching 700kg). The driving style is more like that of the Giulia Quadrifoglio: if you hear the turbo, you get the impression that it's there, and the thrust is constant, making it a real war machine that's hard to keep up with in the twisties. They do the same with the Giulietta, which would have deserved a Delta 4WD system (found on the Evo and Impreza). Then we'd have a fantastic Giulietta (especially when you consider that in South Africa, they had a 280hp version).
What folly to stop production of the 500 in Italy... More unemployment ahead!
If my information is correct, the Polish plant is also in danger for other models...
The work of undermining is underway, on the one hand to create unemployment by gaining on profitability, and, on the other, to impose the electrics desired by Europe... Thank you Tavares ....
Finally, for my part, I've just stopped believing in European automotive products... After 40 years of Italians after all.....
The 500 is produced in Tychy ^-^ it's the 500th that's made in Turin.
Poor fiat where are the 70's agnelli must be turning in his grave
Where are the pleasure cars 125. 124. Lancia thema GTV 6-cylinder coupés 128 Berlin and ALFA 164 and so many others
Fiat 500 made in Algeria to possibly supply Europe as plan B is a joke. The assembly line of the Fiat 500 has only 9 steps of work is all with an assembly 100% manual. Annual production capacity in 1.5 years: not even 5000 vehicles/year. At the moment, production is scheduled to start at the end of January 2024.
For the Tychy plant, they'll only be assembling Jeeps (assembly line less than a year old) and they'll be putting the temporary workers from Ucrania on the Fiat 500 assembly line out of work, since the Poles won't agree to sign an employment contract with the Stellantis pay scale for a production worker's job, since the pay is so low.
Clearly yes, it's a huge assumption, it's deliberately provocative. I don't think the Algerian 500 will ever make it to Europe. What I'm getting at is that the Algerian media are talking about a technology transfer, so that as many components as possible will be manufactured/assembled locally. This still leaves room for Stellantis, whose goal is to produce 90,000 cars a year by 2026, to develop its products in parallel.
And above all, it shows the hypocrisy of this world we live in, where in Europe we relocate the production of combustion engines (to Algeria, India, Brazil, Mexico) to try to make gigafactories of batteries in Europe to sell cars that cost twice as much... and where the 500 electric is struggling a bit... (5700 sales in Europe in August 2023).
In a way, it's a necessity for Fiat to establish itself in Africa with the 500 and the Panda.
But for the rest I fully agree with you all 2.... alas.
If he could rise from the grave and slam his grandson's bather, I'd be happy!
The man who left the Panda I in production until his death in 2003, i.e. 23 years, shouldn't be too shocked...
Except that the Panda 1 was selling like hotcakes, so I don't see why it shouldn't have continued. Renault did the same with the Twingo, so I don't see what the problem is, and the Panda 1 had 2 evolutions: 80/86-86/92-92/03.
So yes, there's plenty to be shocked about.
After a while, even if a car sells well, you have to keep up with the competition (e.g. the Koreans in the 2000s). Yes, the Panda I was well-designed in 1980, but it was especially inexpensive, and without sufficient profits Fiat was on the verge of extinction in 2003. Continuing along this path meant bankruptcy and social disaster, thank you Gianni...
And they'll show me that the Panda even had competition, because it never did, and Toyota's project to counter the Panda never saw the light of day, because they realized it was a lost cause. Even Suzuki tried with several unsuccessful models, and yet their models remained at the forefront of the market for a hell of a lot of years, but not one car succeeded in knocking the Panda off its perch, and I mean not one!
But of course! 🤣
The Panda 1 has already been renewed 3 times and in France alone, between farmers and mountain dwellers, its popularity was so enormous that the 4×4 version was sold until 2004 due to the high demand, so thank you Gianni Agnelli for having understood 🫡 the clientele while that big dung 💩 from Stellantis is massacring everything. It was far from bankruptcy in 2003. It was rather the Punto 2 and Stilo garbage cans that were a disaster at the time (2 big garbage cans).
When you see what a vile piece of crap the future Panda is going to be, it makes you want to puke 🤮.
Last time I checked, Marchionne had destroyed more of the Fiât group in 10 years than the Agnelli family and especially Giovanni had in 40 years.
When you see the Brera, the 159, the Spider, Lancia... apart from the 4C, the Giulia, the Stelvio, the 124.... He's done nothing but crap in 10 years Marchionne and hasn't even been able to get Maserati back on track, whereas Lucas had made it a brand that had returned to its former glory!
So yes, thank you Giovanni Agnelli, for staying the course, otherwise with Marchionne the group almost ended up in oblivion, dismantled into little pieces.
I couldn't agree more! Pure financier who just wanted to cough up cash in the short term!
He even tried to sell Lancia, ransacked Magnetti Marelli which is now in dire straits (they're going to close their 2 sites in France), invested an insane amount of money in an unsaleable 159 Brera, while Agnelli put Fiat at the top of the bill in the agricultural, leisure, construction and energy research sectors with Eni and resurrected Abarth.
He takes out the Tipo and spits on it afterwards.
Marchionne is the Italian version of Ghosn.
You can see the state of Chrysler, the Viper and so on.... I don't see Giovanni's disaster here.
I couldn't agree more: the Marchionne period was a marketing and technological disaster.
Questionable choice, a Giulia SW scrapped (what a monumental mistake!!). GM instead of the in-house V6s, which simply had to comply with anti-pollution standards, and so on...
In short, his death will have been followed by the death, or under perfusion, of the FIAT Group......
A real gravedigger....
Peace be to his soul.......